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Author Topic: Setup Workshop Series - Part 1 - Advance TAB  (Read 206 times)

Offline Tech G

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Setup Workshop Series - Part 1 - Advance TAB
« on: August 19, 2017, 06:44:07 pm »
So one of the things a lot of sim racers enjoy but also find very frustrating is setups.  There are a few guides on line to what each item in the setup page is supposed to do, however, with each mod and each car these seem to vary at least enough to confuse.

There is also a general reluctance to share setups, as the fast guys want to maintain their advantage and get the benefits of the time they put in to them  So I thought I would share with you my basic setup process, with the hope the aliens here chime in, so we can have a basic guide for the URD mod and improve everyone's setup abilities.

Advanced TAB



For quali you generally are not concerned with tire wear so you want the most grip possible.  Pick the softest tire and lower all tire pressures.

Camber: I try to balance the tires so the temperature across the tire is as equal as possible.  Obviously they change while cornering, but should be stable otherwise.  If the inside of a tire is hotter than the outside, reduce the negative camber, and visa versa. It's ok to have the inside a few degree higher than the outside.

Now I am not sure if for quali you want more negative camber and so forget about the balancing, as this might give more grip into, through and out of corners.  Maybe someone can comment on this.

Brakes:
Always try to set the brake bias as far to the rear as possible while not locking up or creating to much instability under braking.  This will reduce your stopping distances as well as aid trail braking to the apex.  As the tires warm up you may find you can move the balance further and further back.  Also, as tires wear the balance may need adjusting forward, so map a couple of buttons for this.

Blanking: Well its seems the more blanking you have the cooler your brakes  ::).  Anyway, again for quali you could maybe save a bit of time by having less blanking, but not sure how much difference this makes and your brakes may then overheat.

Pedal force:  Max possible without locking up.  As ABS is ok on these cars, generally you want this set to max.

Traction Control: I think its faster without and TC.  However, the kerbs and other features on some tracks may mean its safer to have it on.


I drive the Aston.  Anytime anyone wants my setup please just ask.

Chris







« Last Edit: August 19, 2017, 08:33:36 pm by Chad Brown »

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Offline Chad Brown

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Re: Setup Workshop Series - Part 1 - Advance TAB
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2017, 08:33:15 pm »
Thanks for sharing these setup tips Tech. Stickied.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2017, 08:37:51 pm by Chad Brown »

Offline Scott Arrington

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Re: Setup Workshop Series - Part 1 - Advance TAB
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2017, 10:41:06 pm »

 I tell u a few things I run on my setups and thats S7 tires for the race not S6.Also this mod is the first Mod I have ever seen that allows you to go negative with the DF settings which to me would be much better if you couldn"t do that as the cars would handle so much better with a 2/10 DF setting.I also run a symetrical setup,I think your overthinking things alittle too much,because with S7 tires you only have to do about 15 laps or so before you change tires and S7"s last just fine.

Also,I have given out setups plenty of times but this season I have 2 teamates and don"t think it"s fair to possibly help other people finish ahead of my teamates.When I started running the EGT mod last season,I missed the first half of the season and had some catching up to do as far as learning the car and this rediculous DF setting,and never once asked Mikee while he was dominating to help me out.Part of racing is learning to setup your car,after all this is a competition,thats why I do this.Most of us have that competitiveness in us and strive to do the best we can each week,whether its 1st place or 10th place.Setup is huge no doubt,but consitantcy is just as important and most guys could improve in that area,myself included.
As far as qualifying setup goes,drop the fuel,put S6 tires and hang on,thats about it.
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Offline Chad Brown

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Re: Setup Workshop Series - Part 1 - Advance TAB
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2017, 07:17:09 am »
About setups.

I understand peoples reluctance to share their setups. However, I also believe that we are all here to learn and get better at this hobby. Lets face it, if you are here running rF2 you are already ahead of the curve in regard to racing simulations. You likely already have moved on from the Forzas and Gran Turismos of the sim community. The only way from here is learning proper racing techniques. That includes setups.

I think Tech is on to something with the short and sweet versions of what each setup option does. While each could be fleshed out more, it helps immensely. Again I wold like to thank Tech G for his informative posts and the time it took to make these post for the general membership.
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Offline Tig_green

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Re: Setup Workshop Series - Part 1 - Advance TAB
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2017, 10:17:25 am »
Setup tips are good to have as setting up your car is very time consuming. Things like negative df and ways to overcome the difficulties it causes are good to be shared. That said, in general, my opinion is that if we keep setup open then everyone should find their own setup. I agree with Scott that it's competitive sport and no one shouldn't feel offended if fastest guys don't want to share their setup. In situations where you are very far off the pace because of your poor setup then I'm pro helping a friend out. Seeing alien setups once in awhile helps getting ideas but it's not a big help for the future if you don't understand the basic principles of setting up each car. There are a lot of good setup guides out there but where we can help out each other is telling some oddidies that the sim might have when setting up a sim car to perfection. Also remember that a perfect setup for one driver might be far off from perfect to another driver.

Thanks for sharing your tips TechG.

-Matt
« Last Edit: August 20, 2017, 10:25:06 am by Tig_green »
In order to win you need to be willing to roll the dice.

Offline red bullet

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Re: Setup Workshop Series - Part 1 - Advance TAB
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2017, 07:22:47 pm »
Since moving to rF2 I've had a share of trying stuff out regarding setups. I'm still searching to understand everything and every (well most) tip helps. E.g. Tech indicating that a too high coast setting induces understeer, might clear up an issue I'm having lately. In the past I used a lower setting than now. I did it to solve an issue I had on the Le Mans track and continued using it elsewhere. Apparently not a good idea. When I get back home, I'll test with a lower setting.

The best setup guide I've got, I found on RaceDepartment. It was for free but the author has removed it to make people pay a small compensation for his work (because his wife/gf was a bit upset with giving it away  for free etc.). But I haven't found it in a pay-model again.
If it hadn't been for this situation I would have uploaded it here. It is really complete with an entire explanation of the car physics and a small table indicating what to adjust in case of under/oversteer in entry/mid/exit. I've learned tons from this guide.
But I have found a similar summary recently: https://embed.gyazo.com/0fb38d15dbab970e03b2462cb0604bd7.png  In some aspects this decision tree is even better since it indicates what to adjust first, second... I haven't tried this one out.

I don't mind if the really fast drivers don't want to share a setup in advance, but sharing a setup might also be helpful in hindsight, after the race. This way you can learn yourself where you went wrong and learn for the next race. This way the fast drivers don't directly compromise their result but the slower drivers get a way to improve on their own.

Offline Tech G

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Re: Setup Workshop Series - Part 1 - Advance TAB
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2017, 08:32:17 pm »
Thanks for the positive responses guys.  I wasn't meaning to call out the aliens for not sharing actual setups.  I was more hoping they could provide some tips and rules of thumb for some of the setup changes they may make.  For example, one of the quick guys (Top 10) in the WFG competition said for the McLaren leaving the cambers on a higher negative setting can help a lot for quali laps, but its best to balance tires for the race.

The reason I don't mind sharing tips and setuo, is my competitive side wants to beat people at their best.  I used to play a lot of golf to a fairly decent level and would always want my opponents to play well, so we could have a good close fight.

With our race format maybe balancing tires is not so important, but I also do some endurance stuff with full tank stints on the same set of tires, so balancing and looking after tires is very important.
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Offline red bullet

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Re: Setup Workshop Series - Part 1 - Advance TAB
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2017, 07:00:10 am »
I've a a question on brake balance.

I was to put the balance extremely to the front: 60-58 front. The setup Rick made me for Mills Metro had a (maybe standard) 52-48 distribution. Since I was used to that, I made the compromise for 56-44. And without any issues.
After settling in at Imola I tried to change it towards, 54-46, 53-47 or 52-48, but it's unstable as hell. I can manage 54-46 but not during a race. I haven't tried it on other tracks.
So I wondered whether brake balance can be track-specific or not or maybe personal?? Imola is quite weird on braking, with zones on crests, in downhill... So it might be that you need a more forward brake balance there. But I'm not sure.

Offline Tig_green

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Re: Setup Workshop Series - Part 1 - Advance TAB
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2017, 07:40:10 am »
I'm struggling with brake balance in Imola too. Rear balance in Imola is difficult because you can't do some of the hard braking on a straight line. Generally rear braking balance is more unstable but stops you faster. On twisty tracks with not so many hard braking points I tend to move braking balance towards front (maybe 56 or 57) because it stabilizes car a lot a. Front balance locks fronts easily which isn't good for tyre wear. But i find braking distances with front balance more predictable, being consistent with rear balance is challenging, locking up rears is worse than locking fronts.

-Matt

In order to win you need to be willing to roll the dice.

Offline red bullet

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Re: Setup Workshop Series - Part 1 - Advance TAB
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2017, 08:20:00 am »
An unstable rear can get you nasty. It happens so instantaneous that it's hard to counter. A locking front can be managed through a corner, but when the rear snaps, in general you're immediately facing the wrong way. :D
I think I'll keep the 56, or maybe 55, for Imola and try a more rearward balance on other tracks.

Offline Tech G

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Re: Setup Workshop Series - Part 1 - Advance TAB
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2017, 06:41:01 pm »
This could be equipment related and also maybe how you have your brake pedal setup in the control section.  I have standard G27 pedals, but generally run anywhere between 53-47 to 49-51 brake balance (I think I am at 51 on Imola, but also this varies depending on how much rubber has been laid down).  I also have the sensitivity turn down, so the initial breaking is softer and gradually ramping up.

The rear wing and coast diff can help braking stability, but my driving style I rarely stamp on the brake and like to be able to use them to help with turning the car.

Offline Rick Adams

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Re: Setup Workshop Series - Part 1 - Advance TAB
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2017, 03:03:05 pm »
You want to run the brake bias as far to the rear as you can. Go too far and you will get bad results in a hurry. What I do to run more rear bias once I have a decent setup under me is mess with power/coast/preload, and engine braking power. For engine braking the settings are 0-4. 0 gives you the most engine braking power, which will loosen you under braking/turn in. 4 gives you the least engine braking power. I usually run mine between 3-4.

Power, coast and preload. Power comes into play when on throttle, so I won't discuss it here. Coast comes into play while off throttle. Higher coast values make the car tighter/under steer, lower coast values makes the car looser/over steer.

Preload setting controls the response time of the power and coast settings. The higher the number the faster the response, the lower the number the slower the response. I have found that higher numbers tend to help tighten the car up.

My current power/coast/preload setting for Imola on the Corvette are 45/35/9. My brake bias is at 53/47. I have buttons mapped to change this during the race. Sometimes I find that the rear end gets a little too squirrelly when the car gets light on fuel. When this happens I bump the bias up more to the front.

Offline Chad Brown

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Re: Setup Workshop Series - Part 1 - Advance TAB
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2017, 03:59:45 pm »
So the Brake bias is Front:Rear? I actually thought the layout was Rear:Front I generally left the brakes near 50:50 cause I wasn't sure. Silly me. This is why I suck at setups. Unfortunately this revelation will slip from my memory within 5 minutes of closing this web page. I have a memory like Cheese Cloth.

Offline Tig_green

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Re: Setup Workshop Series - Part 1 - Advance TAB
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2017, 04:13:27 pm »
I the first number is under 50 then you are more rear bias. I don't think it's wise to go under 50. I have 54.
In order to win you need to be willing to roll the dice.

Offline Rick Adams

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Re: Setup Workshop Series - Part 1 - Advance TAB
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2017, 06:56:59 pm »
First number is front, second number is rear. You always want the front more than the rear. On your every day street car i think they are set default at 60/40.

 

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October 15, 2017, 06:54:32 pm Tig_green says: EGT Fall series, Spa results:

http://simresults.net/171015-Xl5

October 08, 2017, 06:56:07 pm Tig_green says: EGT Fall series, Sao Paulo results:

http://simresults.net/171008-l1X

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http://simresults.net/171001-zt3

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http://simresults.net/170903-WR0

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http://simresults.net/170827-Z9Z

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http://simresults.net/170820-3xJ

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